#6.6 True Crime!!! Why do we love it so much???

on Wed Apr 24 2024 00:00:00 GMT-0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)

with Darren W Pulsipher, Paige Pulsipher,

Darren and Paige delve into the topic of True Crime entertainment, including podcasts, documentaries, and books. They discuss the reasons behind the fact that women make up the largest demographic of listeners and viewers in this genre.


#truecrime #crimepodcast #criminalpsychology #unsolvedmysteries #murderstories #encounteringevil #safelyexploringcrime #goodvsevil #understandingcriminalminds #darksideofhumanbehavior #criticalthinking #overindulgence #impactoftruecrime #mediabalance #fearandcuriosity #humanbehavior #moderateconsumption #truecrimefascination #psychologyofcrime #viewingbalance

Encountering Evil from Safety

True crime stories echo our deepest fears and curiosities about the most disturbing aspects of human behavior. In a controlled and safe environment such as a book, a podcast, or a TV show, we become observers on the sidelines of evil, weighing in on the battle between right and wrong. Our fascination with these narratives, thus, could be understood as an exploratory mechanism - a means of understanding the extremes of the human psyche.

The fight between good and evil has been a staple in story-telling for centuries. It allows us to confront our fears and anxieties about crime and punishment in a relatively safe environment without the direct threat of physical harm. By examining the mind of a criminal and witnessing their eventual punishment, we can vicariously experience the thrill of danger, all while huddled comfortably on our couch.

Discovering the Dark Side of Human Behavior

True crime stories also satisfy an inescapable curiosity about aberrant human behavior. What prompts someone to plot and commit a dreadful crime? Why would someone feel the justification – or even the entitlement – to cause harm or take lives? These narratives delve into the psyche of the criminals, offering us unique insights into the murkier side of human nature – an aspect that most of us would generally prefer to avoid contemplating.

Understanding such boundaries of aberrant behavior also serves as a potent reminder of the thin barrier that separates civility from chaos. It’s a stark homage to our capacity for good and a powerful reminder of the dark side that lurks within the spectrum of humanity.

The Impact of Over-indulgence

With an ocean of true crime content available, however, there’s a risk of developing a skewed perspective of reality. Consuming an excessive amount of this type of content can generate a false impression that gruesome crimes are rampant, thus possibly inflating fear and anxiety levels.

Maintaining a balance is key. Moderate consumption and an alternating between consuming a true crime series and lighter, more uplifting content are essential. Such balance can help avoid creating an atmosphere of paranoia or fear that can come with prolonged exposure to violent, gruesome content.

The Charm of True Crime

Our fascination with true crime is a mix of curiosity, fear, empathy, and the need to traverse the extremes of human behavior. True crime stories serve as a pathway, enabling us to experience the darker side of human nature vicariously and from a safe distance. They allow us to navigate the peripheries of danger without physical risk and force us to grapple with the unfathomable acts that some are capable of. Remember to watch in moderation and mix the viewing schedule to maintain a healthy balance!

Podcast Transcript


This week, when we were discussing whatto talk about, we were racking my brain.

Sounds like something current, right?

And you said, Let's talk about truecrimes.

Yeah. Right.

When we were talking about that,

I looked at your phone,you were scrolling through your phone,and there was something about true crime.

There's some articleabout true crime. And I went,what do we talk about?

This fascination with true crimethat the world is having a moment.

Actually, it's been several yearsnow, but it's popular.yeah, it's it's hugely popular.

Especially I worry about the Black Widowsseries stuff that you watch.

And I've talked to thisabout all my friends, and we're worriedabout all, you know, all of our wives,like in the Black Widow series.

Is that a thing?

It seems to be working out well for mebecause, you know.

I do all the cooking now.

You prefer to do the cooking.

Okay, so you might be a little concerned.so if you.

If I just show up, like, dead one day,everyone knowsit was her.

It was the food.

Yes. My food can be bad sometimes.

It's always that bad.not that that's not.

But it isfascinating that we seepeople really fascinatedwith these horrific crimesthat have happened.

Yeah, it it's it's interesting.

It really is interesting.

And I'm fascinated with itmuch more than you are.


Like you, we would never sit downand you would never say like,let's watch Dateline. Never.

But I.

I if you're watching itand I walk in and say,yeah, I'll sit and watch it,

I think, Well, that's fascinating.

It is fascinating.

It is fascinating.

So to a certain extent I do.

I do like I like the podcast,

I like the documentaries,

I like the dateline to a certain extent.

So I have I have certain linesthat that I that I won't cross.

Like, it can't be too

I don't really like ones about kids and.

Or too graphic or. Too great.

No, it cannot be too graphic.

In fact, I don't even like onesthat have a lot of bad language.

So I say I love true crime, but I'mpretty picky about the ones I listen toyou like. More of the mystery parts.

Yes, I do.

And you and especially Dateline,how they set them up.

Is he guilty? Yes. Not guilty. Yes. Right.

And then they make you think at the endwhen like they're found guilty,you're still wondering.

But did he do it?

Like you're like,my gosh, did an innocent manjust go to jail or an innocent womanjust go to jail? Are you we've a.

You've talked to meabout that several times.

The worst thing that you can think ofis an innocent person being in jail.

I can't imagine the horrorof being innocent of whatever crimeyou've been convicted of.

And you're sitting in jail saying,

I'm innocent like everyone elsethat's sitting in jail.

Well,we talked to Laura, our friend Laura.

She teaches at the jails.

She teaches college classes at the jails.

And she's in maximum security.

And she goes, hardly any of those guys aresaying they didn't do it.

Yeah. Yeah. A lot of those guys are.

It was pretty.

Yeah. Pretty clear that they did it.

You know, when you're holding the gunor holding the knife or, you know.

Whatever the case may be. Yeah.

So I did a little bit of research and.

And so did you.

Usually you don't do research?

No, I was fascinated.

So why did you decide to do some research?

I had 5 minutes and I asked Chatty

Pete to do the research for me.

But you decide because you never do this.

No, I don't know that you ever have.

No, I haven't.

So why did you?

Because I was just interested.

I didn't want to wait till our podcasts.

Well, and do you feel like you did itbecause you really don't knowmuch about this? I don't. Knowanything about this topic at. All.

And why it's so popular.

Yeah, well,

I found out some interesting things.

If we look at True Crimes,the most popular or the mostnotorious true, true crime out there is,what would you guess?

The one thatreally kind of just sparkedeveryone's interest in true crime?

Well, I think it was.

I only know because you told me.

No, I didn't.

I thought you said. I thought you told me.

I told you the podcast that kicked it off.

Serial, Right.

Serial is the podcast serials.

The podcast.

I don't know.

I have no idea. Jack the Ripper.

Jack the Ripper Museum in London.

We did in the East End.

Yeah. Yeah, it was.

It was silly. It was silly.

But you know what?

It was interesting.

We spent 2 hours there.

It was actually exactly what I thoughtit was going to be.

I thought it was going to be likesome hokey pokey set up.

And it was it was a hokey pokeysetup for sure, but still interesting.and we read everything that was there.

Yeah, it was fast.

But if you go back and look at thathistory, it was in the newspaper, the.

Or the London Times every single day.


And everyone was fascinated with itand they were living it in the I was.

Going to say,

I think one of the reasonsthey were fascinated withit is because they were terrifiedbecause, like, it wasit was happening in their town.

Like this isthis is something that hadn't occurred.

Yeah,but it was. Happening in the East End.

Yeah. The poor part of town.

But the wealthy people in the west,in and in the outlying areas,they were fascinated with it.

Yeah. Just as much so. Interesting.


We're you know,this has been going on for a long time,but the thing that really kicked it offin our day and age was the podcast serial.

Which I thought was fascinating.


So let's dive in to whatour fascination is with true crime.

Okay, sounds good. Okay, so let's do it.

So I found an article I a couple through.

Well, actually it was.

You had found them,you sent them to me. Boy, I.

Did all the research just.

Like you sent me the articles. Yes. okay.

And then. Yeah. And today.

That was interesting.

You were.

You're on a time crunch here, Soyou came in the kitchen and you're like,

What are you doing?

Why are you writing so much?

And I'm like, You know what? Bye bye.

This is my thing. Bye bye.

Let me do my thing.

So I kicked you out of the kitchen.

I'm like, Stop.

Okay, So this article talks abouthad several different reasons ofwhy were why?

Why are we so interested?

Why are we so fascinated?

So it says one of the thingsthat being obsessedwith true crime is normal.

I was glad to hear that.

I don't know about that.

And then it said to a point.

Of view. Of normal to a point.

So they said, There's nothing weirdabout being obsessed with true crime.

It says that we're normal,that we're healthy.

This is some psychologist at.

The San Diego Police Department.

Well, gross.

I mean, he sees the worst of everything.

He said our interest in crimeserves a number of different,healthy psychological purposes.

You don't need to worry about me.

And then it says, of course,there are limits.

If all you do is read about crimeand all you do is talk about itand you have posters of itand you have newspaper clippingsin your desk drawer, he said you mightneed some counseling, butand then hesaid, overconsumption of true crimecan have negative consequences.

So what negative consequences can I?

So and I said, like the perceptionthat crime is worse than it is.


You know, or that there's a serial killeraround every corner,which is simply not true.

It's that it is so rareto have a serial killer,you know, in your midst.

It's very, very rare.

So I, I kind of agree with that, that

I sometimesfeel like when I'm, you know, reada negative and a negative,but a a mystery, a thriller,

I watch Dateline

Saturday, like the other day,

I watch like four Datelines in a row.

Then you felt more cautious.

I did. Like every time I hearda noise in the house, you were home.

And I was like, Was that was that,was that?

You don't I mean, like it.

You start to get paranoid about it.

Well, yeah, because that'swhat your brain is like going,yeah, I hear all these, all these truecrime stories, all these horrible things.

It must be normal, right?

Yes. And so. that's interesting.

Yeah. So

I believe that.

So and just kind of like I watched thethe car crash.

Yes. This is a very big problemwe have in our house Crash.

I was called the.

Dash. Cams. The dash cams.

I watch those on Instagram.

And literally now every time we get inthe car, I'm like, would youwould you would you?

You've all seen my little helper.

I have a my little helper When we drive.

I'm your little helper.

You're watching those dash cams.

They're not good. They're not.

They're not.

They're not. So moderation, people.

Watch yourwatch your true crime in moderation.well, you need to follow it upwith something silly.

And sometimes we do thatif we watch something, then I'm like,

I need to watch friends or

I need to watch right before we go to bed.

Yeah. Or yeah.

So, okay,the next one, Evil fascinates us.

Does evil fascinate you?

Because, I mean,obviously this is for everyone.

No, I guess so. Right?

It says that.

Somethingvery different than my own life. Right.

That's interesting.

It says it's a glimpse into the mindof, you know, peoplethat have committed horrible crimes.

And it's so far removed from our,you know, 99%or 99.9% of the population's,you know, psychethat, you know, it's fascinating.

And it's also like this taboosubject thatwe're right, this taboo thingthat we're looking into.

So. Yeah, you want to dance with evila little bit, Yeah.

And it said that the fascination with goodversus evil has existed forever, right?

It's this fascination that we,we all seem to have.

So, so that's kind of that natural manthat we're trying to fight off, right?

So when we see something,if I get it, you get it, I get it.

Okay. Yeah.

So, yeah, it's just like somethingso removed from our lifeand we're interested and.

It's sad that we are interested in it is.

I mean, wouldn'tbe better to fill our minds with somethinga little more uplifting. Yes.

Yeah, that's why I said moderation, right?

Like I should not watchfor Dateline's in a row.

I should only watch one.

Yeah, that's probably a good idea.

So moderation.

Especially if I'm traveling or.

Anything? Yes, for sure.

For sure. Okay, the next one.

We want to know what makes people tick.

We want to know what makes killers.

Killers or maybe not even killers.

Maybe it's a bank robber, right? Yeah.

I'm fascinated more with the bankrobber one.

Why does that person think that it's okayto do what.

They're doing right? Yeah.

Why do they think that they deservethat million dollars from the bankwithout working for it, right? Yeah. Yeah.

But they do work in their mind.

Maybe they say I spent monthsplanning to steal this money.

Yeah, right.

And maybe that's her job.

I don't know. Yeah,but yeah, it's interesting.

It says that we want to figure outwhat drove these peopleto such an extreme act,whether it's robbing a bankor killing someone or kidnaping someone,you know, or what have you.

Do you feel likeyou want to know thisfor a reason so that you don't go downthat same road that they went?

Because I don't thinkanyone wakes up in the morning,you know, in their teens and say,

I just want to go kill someone,or I think I just want to go run bank.

Doesn't it happen progressively over time?

I don't know.

That's a question I have.

Yeah, that's a goodthat's a good question. Yeah.

Do you think you're fascinated with itbecause you don't want to?

Or maybe you see yourselfpossibly robbing a bank and it's like.

No, I. Don't want to go down that route.

So maybe I don't want to be like.

I am so terrified of jailthat I could never commit a crimebecause that just jail seriously is likehuge fear.

Huge fear.

So no, I would never.

That's why you're

I don't think you could sit on a jurybecause you'd be so afraid ofconvicting anyone because they might be.


Yeah, because I'd be like, how, how,how can we be 100% sure, Right?

Unless the evidence.

It's interesting,because I'm the opposite.

You got arrested, you're guilty.my gosh. That's terrible.

I know it's horrible,but it's horrible for you.

If you won't be honest.

You're you're you're innocentuntil proven guilty.

Which that

I feel like a sad in our societybecause I feel like that is morepeople are like you.

You're arrested and then people.

They wouldn't have arrested youunless they had probable.


Probablecause doesn't mean that you're guilty.

Yeah, I guess so. Know.

Like, how many people that we've seenthat their lives have been destroyedbecause someone has accused themof something that they didn't do?


You don't even have to get arrestedin today's society to be.

To be completely destroyed.

Completely destroyed. Right.

That's true.

Right. Sowhat's thewhat's the next one on our list?

Another reason that we're fascinatedis because we can't look awayfrom a train wreck.

That is so true. Why?

Why does traffic slow downwhen there's an accident?

Because everyone wants to look. Yeah. Why?

Why is it why do we want to lookat a train wreck or a car accident?

That's I don't think it's because we,you know, want to see someone'slife, you know, in perilor we want to see someone in their bloody.

It's just like, my gosh, what happened?

I need to see what happened.

You know, I don't know.

I mean, but why? I mean, we all do it.

Yeah, we all do it.

It's just like, my gosh, what happened?

And we just we're curious.

We or our minds are so curious.

What happened?

What happened?

Right? How did it happen?

How did that.

We want to know how it happened.


Do you think it has to dowith any self-preservation at all?

Yeah, for sure. I think. So. So.that looks horrible. That.

That was really bad.

How did it happen? So I don't do the same.

Yeah, well,and that leads right into our next onewas another reason we're interested,because it helps us feel prepared.interesting.

So this is where we talk aboutespecially women.

So you read about this, right?and I did all the stats on this one.

So women are definitely more interestedin true crime than men.

Why is that? You know. Why 70.

Well, let's talk about the statistics.

Okay, Let's. Do 75% of womensay they enjoy true crimes.

Okay. So that's a huge difference.

Huge difference. Yeah.

Over 60 something like 67, almost 70% oftrue Crimes audiences are women.

That's that's a huge number.

Yeah, that is.

So why why is it especially for women,why are they so drawn todrawn to true crime?

Both podcast and video and booksare tons of books on this.

Now why is that.

So It says that women in particularseem to love true crimebecause they feel likethey're getting tipsabouthow to increase their chances of survivalif they find themselvesin a dangerous situation.

What do you think about that?

Is that is.

That's not for. You. That is not for me.

Why I watch them.

It says women fear becoming the victimof a crime more than men do, obviously.


Well, in the statisticswe read the statistics on that as well.

Yes, the statisticsare actually very high forwomen And crime.

Yes. As far as death goes, yeah.

In violent crimes,women die more in violent crimesas a percentage of of violent crimescompared to men dying.

But what's fascinating about that,but men are surpassed women dramaticallyin violent crimes, in receivingand also giving of violent crimes.


But men are shot a lot more than women.

Women are. It's more personal.

The the the murders of womenare much more personal.

That's interesting.

Which is fascinating.

And these true crimes, they're not likethe ones that are investigatedaren't like a drive by shooting.

That's not what they're mostly about.

They're mostly more,you know, personable crimes.

There is the word they used inthe statistics was intimate.


And I mean, a lot of the datelines are notjust, you know, a drive by shooting at.

Right. That'sthat's not what is interesting to people.

Right or a bar fight that.

We're right

It's about how this woman and this manand they you know they thoughtwe thought they had a happy marriage,but then, you know,she got killed and they start to dig in.

And then he was having an affair.

She was having an affair.

And then, you know, I mean, it startsit gets into the details of their liveswhen I think that's that's why I like it.

I find it fascinatingwhen someone that looks like meor you or a normal person, Right.look, goes. The. People.

There's, you know,

Joe and Janice and look, they go to churchand they're normal people.

And their neighborsall say that they were happy in their met.


Those are the ones that interest methe most.

That and then one of them or something,


Something snapped, some normal rightnor what seeminglynormal person or something happened maybe.

And maybe it wasn't a snap.

Maybe it's always been there, but.

Maybe it's beenthey're just kind of just built up. Right.

And no one knew.

I think that's intriguing to me.

Yeah, I think that's fascinatingbecause that that goes to show thatyou and I think I knowwe can't really talk in stereotypes,but we're going tobecause the numbers are showing it right.

I think women enjoy moreof the social aspect of these true crimes.

Right. How did it get there?

Who cares about how they died? Right.

That doesn't matter as much to you guysas how they got to that point.

Yeah, the story behind the story.

Behind the story behind it.

Well, that explainswhy you won't watch UFC Ultimate Fighting.

I can't stand it.

I can't stand it. But you're.

But you'll go and you watch a true crimewhere someone's dying.

It's not showing.

It doesn't show how the I mean, it showsit might show them laying on the floor.

But you don't like that part of it anyway.

No, but you have see,you're beating each other to a pulp.

I cannot watch.

I can't even watch boxing.

I cannot watch See, I can not watch.

Really fascinating.

I think that shows the difference betweenmen and women, because watching a boxing,a boxing matchor a UFC to me is a lot of strategy.

It's interesting to watch them do that,where you're more interestedin the social aspects of the true crime,which is somewhat similarin that there's there's strategy involvedand all that stuff.

It's just different.

Yeah, I don't want I'mnot into the gore like that's why I likethings like Dateline or a podcast because

Dateline is very, you know, surface.

They don't they tell you what happened,but they don't,you know, show you a whole lot.

But they dig in tothey dig into the social story.

A story that's exactlythey like gettingtips to increase their chances of survivalif they find themselvesin a dangerous situation.

It says woman, If you're becomingthe victim of a crime more than mendo by learning about murders, who iswho is more likely to be a murderer?

How do these crimes happen?

Who are the victims, etc.

People are also learning about waysto prevent becoming a victim themselves.

Isn't that interesting?

That's interesting, especiallywhen you look at the statistics.

Yeah, because the chances of you becominga victim are pretty low.


Well,not necessarily a victim, but becoming awe're less likely to be murdered.

Well, even I. Even a victim of violence.

A violence man.

I mean.

The numbers the numbers statistically arepretty are pretty low.

Interesting. Right? So.

Well, it is interesting.

It is interesting.

So once again, moderation,because maybe, like I said,we're watching this over and over againand we put ourselves in that situationgoing, no, what if that happens to me?

And. Right. And as.

Women, maybe you're seeing thingsthat aren't there then.


Well, and as women from a very young age,we are taughtto don'twalk to your car at night by yourself.

Don't walk down a dark alley. Right.

We're taught and we've taught our girlsall those same things, right.

Make sure you're well organized.

And I teach my boysif you know if a coworker or someone,don't let them walk alone. Right? Right.

So it is something that is ingrained in usfrom a very young age.

And our society as a.

Whole,which it's sad that we have to do that.

But it is it's a realitythat we have to do that.

Women have to do that.

And that's not as much of a concernfor men as it is for women.

I agree. Yeah. So.

Okay, anotheranother reason why we like to watch

True crimebecause we're glad we're not the victim.

That's sad.

My life is good. I didn't get beat up or

I wasn't killed.

My life is good, right?

Yes. Like, wow, really stinksthat that happened to you?

That it didn't happen to me, right? Like,that's interesting.

Yeah, I thought that was interesting.

That that was one of them.

That glad you're not the victim.

Well, okay.

I do.

Well, the opposite of that is true, too,which is the next bullet is.

We're glad we're not the the perpetrator.

Yeah. Yeah.

This was interesting.

My life's good.

I don't feel like I need to kill anyonetoday.

Well, I found this interesting, though.

It says the psychologist saidwe all get angry at people.


And sometimes we say, how many of usprobably everyone has always said

I could just kill them.


Like, you know, I mean,everybody makes that that passing color.my gosh,

I could just kill them for cutting me offor I could just kill them for blah,blah, blah. Right.

But almost no one does that, thankfully.

Right? You don't do. That.

I would be really bad if that happened.

But then when yousee it on screen and you say,someone did do it, you're right.

So look at what happened to their lifeoutright.

What a mess. Yeah, yeah.

That that aggression,that impulse that we have for a brief,tiny, brief moment,we didn't act on it, but they did.

And thank goodness someone else did.

And we did. That's what it was sayingabout not being the perpetrator.

Interesting. Yeah.

Isn't that interesting?

Yeah, that is interesting. Yeah.

Another one.

Adrenaline rush. Adrenaline rush.you. You kind of like thiswhen we watch a show and.

And you don't knowexactly how it's going to end.

And in all these true crimes.

Well, not all of them.

Sometimes we know how it's going to end,sometimes we don't.

Yeah, Yeah. It's that adrenaline rush ofkind of like when you watch a scary movie,right?

It's this, I mean, I watchedthe scary movie through my fingers.

Like, I'm like,but I like that rush that it gives.

You know, this reminds me, it's funny thatit reminds me this the OJ Simpson trial.


Now, I didn't have an adrenaline rushuntil.

Until the end.

That when they were reading,when they were getting ready to readthe verdict, I specificallyremember where I was standingand I was just like, I couldn'teven sit down because I was just like,what are they going to say?

What are they going to say?

What's going to be?

Yeah, yeah.

And, and they, they,they stretch it out for several weeks,if any of you remember,it was probably just us.

Remember the older people. Yeah.

That it was on TV.

Every. Day. Every day.

That's what we. Watchedand that's what we watched.

We watched the commentary afterwardsand we watched,the jurors don't know about this.

Yeah, because they can't betold about this, But we can.


And then and then everyone was on pinsand needles.

They even interrupted the NBA,the NBA playoffs.

Did they really?

Yeah, I think so.

For the reading of the juror. It's crazy.

They interrupted.

I just remember I was like,

This is really happening.

So that adrenaline rush is true. Yeah.

And then the last oneis we like to solve the mystery.

So I know when I watch itbecause if you come in and I'mwatching one, I'll be like,

Ah, you know who did it?

Like, right?

I like, I pride myself on knowingand I usually incorrect.

That's why I really like the episodeswhere I don't knowwhere it's like a twist and turn.

I like those because usually I'm like,is this person?

Well, maybe that's why there's so muchfast fascination with Jack the Ripper,because they haven't solvedthat mystery yet.

Yeah, there's several leads that go downand there's still people today.

This is, you know, 150 years ago.


People are still todaytrying to solve that mystery.

Still giving their $0.02 on what. They.


So, yeah,

I think people like to solve problems.

All right.

So you going to start watching more truecrime with me?

No, I guess.

I would just give you the cliffnotes. You do.

Which I appreciate.

But the one thing that I wantedto add a little to this, and that iswhat have you learnedfrom watching True Crime?

Are you asking me?

Yes. I'm asking you specifically. Okay.

All right.

We learnedbecause you you tell this to me, toour audience needs to know this, too.


If you get arrested for anything,anything at all,and they start the police start askingyou questions if you've been arrested.


If they're just askingif you've been you know,

I shouldn't say if you've been arrested.if you are taken downto the police station,

If you're taken to the police station,do not do not say anything.

Even if you are as innocent as can be.

You get a lawyer, Lawyerup, lawyer up, lawyer up, lawyer up.

End of story.

I would sayeven before you take taken down there.

And they will tell you, I'm telling you,

I've watched so many datelines.

They will say, when when the people say,

I think I need a lawyer.

And they'll say, well, you know,that makes you look pretty guilty.

If you're asking for a lawyer,doesn't matter.

Get your lawyer.

Do say tell them nothing,because they will twist and turn and.and that's something you learned isthe police can lie to you all day long.

Police can say we have in the next roomsomeone that was an eyewitnessto you committing this crime.

They can say that to you and you're like,wait, what?

And they're like, Yes, we have so and so.

Then they say, Just take this plea deal,just see you're guilty,and then you'll be it.

This will all be over.

It's crazy. So the lawyer.

I say, Hey, your wife's next door. Yes.

Beans on everything,so you might as well come clean. Yep.

So lawyer up the very second lawyer up.

That's what I always that'swhat I have learned is to lawyer up and.

And what else? Don't be stupid.

If you do commit a crime.my goodness.

There's a lot of criminalsthat are so stupid.

Honey, The only ones that they're showingon Dateline are the ones that got caught,right? A cause they did something wrong.my goodness. Yeah.

I mean, they're so smart.

They're so smart crooks out there, Right?

But they made one little small stepin the wrong direction.

Yeah. So what I've learnedis don't commit any crimes.

I was going to say, that's probably the.

Moral of the story.

Do not commit a crime, thenyou don't have to worry about any of this.

But if you mistakenly get arrestedand you're innocent,get a lawyer immediately.

You're welcome.

All right.

Thank you, honey. I'm glad.

I'm glad. True Crimes.

And you're watching yourobsession with true crimes asour audience here.

Well,all right.

On today's lemonade Moment of the week,

Darren has won.

I don't know what it is.

Our youngest tried outfor the state lifeguard,which is a pretty brutal physical test.

And it's out at the lake nearby herethat he had to swim a thousand yardsand then he had to.

In a specific time frame.

In under 20 minutes and thenand that's it at the lake.

So not in a pool.

And then he had to run 200yards, swim 400 yards and run

It's it's doable, but it's hard.

It's really hard.

And we just sent him,it's like, okay, yeah, go.

When he got there,he says, Well, I'm under 18.

I need a parent hereand to sign a waiver to do this.

And I'm like, I'm in the middleof working on my dissertation.

So I justdrop everything and drivethe 20 minutes out there.

That's the lemon.

That's a lemon partthat I had to go out there.

I hadn't even showered yet.

My hair was standing straight up.

It was it was kind of silly.

But I get to go out thereand watch him try and do this.

And that was the lemonade partbecause I was so proud of him,because he came in in less than 10 secondsleft.

That's crazy.

And he and three other kidsran up across the finish linewith less than 10 seconds.

Well, and we also have to saythe water was 60 degrees.

He was swimming in without goggles.

Yes, of course. Because David is David.

I don't he goggles he wishes now afterhe said I wish I would have had goggles.

And a wet. Suit wetsuits,but he did great.

He actually he killed the other part, too.

He did. It.yeah. He he made it.

I was so proud of him.

And I got to be there to witness that.

Where before I was like,

Yeah, we'll see you later, Ryan,because I got to work on this.

Yeah,but it was a nice break from me writing,and I got, I got to take him out to brunchafterwards.

We have.

We had a fun morning.

I thinkif you like today's episode.

Give us five stars on iTunes, Spotify,


And head to Facebook and like us.

And check out our blog at

Where's the Talk.

Where you can leave questionsand comments.

Add. But most of all.

Go outand make some lemonade. You betcha, baby.